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haunts 
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Yo! It's been a long time but we are back with the fifth episode of the iPlayWinner Podcast! Pherai comes on as a full time host now in the hopes to finally bring everyone a semi-regular podcast. I of course join in for some discussions as well, and here are a few of the topics we cover:
- EVO2K10 Experiences
- EVO Live Stream & the sense of entitlement currently in the Street Fighter community.
- Marvel vs Capcom 3
- Japanese Tier Lists vs North American Tier Lists
- ... and many more nonsensical ramblings from both of us!
The second half of the podcast is an interview with Vance "Vangief" Wu and we talk to him about his experience at EVO2K10 and making top 8 with Zangief. He tells us about how he came up and what he does to practice and get better, so thanks again to Vance for spending some time with us on the podcast!
Reader Comments (47)
Sweet! Will this be in your iTunes feed eventually?
Opening song please?!
Haunts getting a little butt hurt?
I agree that the people shouldn't be getting that mad that the stream dropped especially since the matches were uploaded to youtube, but it doesn't mean they aren't entitled to their own opinion and to have the ability to voice it however negative it may be.
Honestly, when the stream dropped I wasn't too pleased. I understand that these things happen but I think its safe to say that everyone that was watching got a little upset.
Some people cant make it out to Evo, simple as that.
good podcast, though i disagree with the idea that J.wong should have been top 8 for the sake of beating daigo. his loss is equal in value with a lot of the other upsets in the tournament. we shouldn't go into the idea of who deserves what placing. that and had ricky ortiz in fact, beat daigo on that night and won the crown for the usa, it wouldn't have mattered. =P
i wanted the usa to win this year, but that opportunity should extend to every player in the country. if it's always supposed to be daigo vs justin, then everyone else should just hang up their fightsticks and the whole evo tourney could just be daigo vs justin playing sf4 for ten minutes for a prize pot of 20 dollars.
the result was that a relatively unknown player with an underrated character got acknowledged. the taiwanese sf4 scene probably wouldn't have garnered the same attention had gamerbee lost to justin. And now you have Juicebox Abel to Mike Ross to Arturo Sanchez to a bunch of other players eyeballing Adon as a possible secondary/new main. That fight's outcome had a bigger impact on the community than Alex Valle Adon tutorials ever did.
i can't really speak for everyone in that ballroom or the people watching the stream, but i was simply just rooting for the underdog during justin vs gamerbee. and...i don't look at the outcome as terrible.
When talking about the chat at EVO you have to remember, that there were 40-50k people watching the finals. If only 1% of them talks shit nonstop, it'll still be massive.
You just have to remember that you're talking about a minority here, which is hard of course, because while watching it's half of what you see, but it still is.
The vast majority appreciates the work and effort that is put into everything. Please try to remember that.
I subscribed to the Podcast days ago with my Nokia mobil phone. But this episode didn't show up even though I double checked the adress, when I found it here on the webpage.
Just to let you guys know, but I can't tell if it's my phone or the feed.
Here is a radical idea. Don't set up chat for your streams.
@ Haunting Haunts
People are entitled to their opinion but making homophobic and racist comments are just unacceptable.
Great podcast, guys. Great job at EVO, Vance!
Any chance of getting this on itunes? And where's Mr Jared?
The comments about Mike Ross and Ricky Ortiz were horribly offensive during the stream. Absolutely horrible.
@ Kevin
Its the internet, what do you expect?
Trolls will troll and its only feeding the fire that there is attention being paid to them.
If if it such a big deal, just disable chat. Chat isn't needed for anything at all, except trolling.
But there have been good things to come from the chat of a stream like Gootecks being called 'Boo-Hoo tecks'
(before you start defending gootecks, I actually think he is a pretty cool guy. Just happen to find it funny)
Homophobic and racist remarks are messed up, but there isn't really anything that can be done. As long as there is a chat for the stream and there are people who have an apparent lack of morals this is going to be something that is gonna be happening in the chat.
lol racist and homophobic comments. you idiots during the keystone streams talk worse than that haha. if you sent a vid of a keystone stream to those sensitive G4 asshats they would try to crucify you for the things said. shouldn't throw stones in a glass house. keep talking that shit Stream Monsters!
In soviet russia podcast hears you!
Great Podcast
Name OF The Opening Song Please??
Europe is free!
Long live pad players and people will opinions and will say negative remarks on anything just deal wit it. everytime I get on x-box live or PSN I either get hate mail or a voicemail full of hate its just people being themselves
Pherai and Haunts almost touched on Adam Sessler's commentary during the MvC3 exhibition and SSF4 finals. I'm a casual Street Fighter player, and surprised to hear that my experience with the games doesn't sound much different from Vangief's was until Street Fighter IV came out. I have also watched Adam Sessler's Extended Play and X-Play (until about a year after the G4-TechTV merger). That said, I much preferred Seth Killian's commentary to Adam Sessler's. Adam's strength is in reviewing games as a whole, not the people who play them or advanced tactics. I felt that Seth was able to act as a bridge between the two worlds of pro and casual, while Adam could not keep up. Evolution and the fighting game community got greater exposure through G4, which probably wouldn't have happened without someone from the network being able to represent it at the tournament in some way. If it had to be anyone from G4, I still prefer Adam or Morgan over anyone from Attack of the Show. But, I was watching the tournament that Afrodojo was streaming last night and thinking of what could have been if someone like FuriousJodo was the other person at the table. I'm sure Adam's commentary was edited for the broadcast version, but during the stream he was counting total rounds won rather than games.
Haunts: I don't know how you went for three days playing on pad. One night of playing, like Forza, or some racing game or something, I'm usually done.
Is Haunts describing playing with the analog stick or the directional pad? Forza is licensed for Microsoft consoles, as I recall. I know some people prefer using d-pads for racing games, but if that's the case the d-pad is the culprit. In my experience, the 360 controller has the most awful d-pad made in the last 15 years of 1st-party controllers. If he was using the analog stick, then that tiredness is probably from just a lack of using it on a regular basis. He's trained his wrist and not his thumb; pad players do the opposite.
Speaking of pads, it was said Vangief uses a PS3 controller. I just checked EVO's rules the other day out of curiosity and it said on the site that wireless controllers aren't allowed. Is plugging in the USB cable to charge considered turning it into a wired controller for tournaments, or did he have to step back to a PS2 controller with a converter for EVO? Either way, I'm impressed he's able to play at a tournament level on those. I have played for years with four face buttons, but I love my FightPad's six face buttons (not to mention that wonderful d-pad).
sorry, i can't cheer for player like this.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=N8e0yem5CV0
in soviet russia, justin wong hates you !
@ eile
justin's just talkin' shit lol. nothing wrong with that. stuff like that happens at the arcade all the time. i if anything, it makes the match more hype.
Podcast was awesome! I love fighting game related podcasts and I definitely find it interesting to hear people's thoughts on the tier lists coming out.
rufus ryu is a bad matchup for rufus? rofl. according to who? justin or ricky after daigo smashes their face in? it was even in vanilla, rufus got buffed ryu got nerfed.
@nowandlater,
well, i just don't cheer for those people who trash talk. if this is normal for American players, then i can't really cheer Americans to win. I'm just response to the Podcast on why i didn't cheer for Justin Wong against Gamerbee in evo. i was there.
Dammit Nobody's answering my question on whats the name of the opening Song >=(
FUCK YES!!! podcast is back MOFOSSSSSSSSS
GOOD shit Haunts!
@Roman4328
I want haunts or hover to put together a track list of some shit so we can fine some phat beats to play ssf4 too
sorry no answere for you man
Thanks Haunts! :D We're doin our best!
And great podcast! Great convo about EVO results :3
It's disappointing that they shocked at the stream monsters, when you have over a thousand people in a chat of course you'll have a ton of stream monsters, and the more people the more monters. plus anyone who is seriously watching isn't focusing on the chat, this seems like more of a scolding than a pod cast.
Haunts is the textbook definition of hypocrisy. Wanting JWong to go to top 8 because you "like seeing other players going up against him and seeing if they can take him out"... uh, what do you think happened in the semis? And complaining about the stream when people at Keystone II say the same comments? Stay salty Haunts.
dude online randomness = ppl give uncensored opinions... they wouldn't be watching if they didn't appreciate it to some degree
I dont remember the whole podcast word for word. As i watched it yesterday and it was a pretty long podcast, but i do agree with people talking about Keystone and stream monsters. Im not trying to say anything bad, but when i tune into keystone. Its about the same thing as what i read on streams. Dick jokes, Homo jokes, Etc. Sorry Haunts, but im going to have to agree with Patrick and the other people on here.
On a positive note. I really enjoyed the stream. I was really interested by the comparison of Japanese Tier list to the American Tier list. Maybe because japanese people play SF4 more footsies and zoning oriented? Thats why their tier list different than ours?
I cant wait for the next podcast. I hope its just as good as this one. =]
In response to the negative reaction to Level Up's stream, you guys made comments like "You should have just gone to Evo" and "If a stream drops and it ruins your Saturday night you have bigger problems."
It may be fun to call those complainers "children on the internet" but people who have the ability to stream top level events are in a unique position right now.
Streamers can make Street Fighter huge.
My wife was watching the stream with me.
She isn't interested in Street Fighter but after I gave her a little background on some of the players she was freaking out during the matches, rooting for her favorites.
Instead of complaining about the complainers, because people are going to be that way, realize that the people watching your streams are the most important factor in making Street Fighter huge.
You may not like everyone that walks into your restaurant, but you definitely like their wallet.
Quality streams will transform Street Fighter and the fighting game scene in general from local to global.
High level Street Fighter play in tournament is a quality product.
It is much more valuable than the game itself.
Don't be short sighted with it because some people got pissed about the stream going down.
Who would have thought that poker would be so much fun to watch on television?
Street Fighter can be that way too and the guys that are in the position to stream it are the ones who can accomplish that.
Nice podcast, but i do have something to say man. You come off as kind of a jerk when you keep saying that everyone should go to evo. Probably half of the people watching the stream aren't from the States. I live a world away from vegas and i would love to come out and support but its virtually impossible for me. Not to offend you but you called other people children but your idealistic view on everyone being able to attend or even everyone knowing the nature of the work that goes into a stream. Street Fighter is getting so big that your appealing to the masses now. Get with it man. When you have that many people watching your stream do you think they're all going to be intelligent understanding people? No, you're going to get moron, redneck, ignorant people blowing up SRK and the stream chat with comments. But it doesnt matter because they still love street fighter enough to sit at home on a saturday night and watch a stream. If street fighter is going to continue to grow we all need to grow with it and take in the good and the bad respectively. The scene is going to change and grow if you dont move with it you're going to get left behind.
Right on, I'm glad (and a little bit surprised) to see people calling out the bs and not kissing ass, haha. Like HHRVBB said, not only are there people outside the U.S. that can't get to evo, but inside the U.S. too. Whether the issue be money, or obligations at home, whatever. Yes it would be great if everyone could go, but the fact is- those numbers on the stream are doing EVERYONE in the community- ESPECIALLY those who run tournaments, websites, sponsors etc a huge favor- let's not act like it's just the viewing audience getting something out of the deal for nothing. Those "children" represent more people interested in the scene which = traffic/ad revenue on your and everyone else's sites, potentially more future attendees at evo or other tourneys, more revenue for sponsors (leading to potentially MORE sponsors), bigger events, more competition etc. etc. Alex calls himself CEO of level up, I don't know if that's just to sound cool, or because he is actually running a business there- but if it's the later, then a failure like the one that happened at evo is fully fair game for people to comment on (and come on that was the hardest possible way to fail there, losing the grand finals of ssfIV, what probably 95% of people there or on stream were waiting to see, so it's more than understandable that they are going to be unhappy and let that be known).
If there's a sense of entitlement of those watching the stream, then there's a sense of entitlement among those conducting business with/in the fgc that they should get good things and advantages of having a huge audience, without having to deal with the realistic downside of it. It's the internet, and it's a LIVE forum- who in their right mind would be surprised that trolls would be showing off, doing what they do best there. Why are they even part of the discussion- all that does is give them exactly what they want, and more of an incentive to be there next time. Those that are trolling just to get a reaction are nothing. The rest of the audience is either paying attention to the stream, or (as some have pointed out), doing exactly what you do at keystone, or we do with our own friends... joking around, talking trash, having fun. Sure a lot of it is probably childish, but I think most of us do it, and have no right to call anyone else out on it... People having trouble taking it (when it's them on blast in public, or they have something to do with the event or whatever), might want to remember when it was them dishing it.
That said, I will agree that people probably don't show the gratitude that those doing work in the community deserve. In the case of Evo, those of us that couldn't make it still did get a whole weekend worth of good streaming of stuff we otherwise wouldn't have gotten to see, and I for one do appreciate that. I'm just tired of people's inability to make the differentiation between trolls/haters, and people who are just joking, having fun, or expressing a negative opinion of something. If it's an honest opinion, it isn't trolling, and it's just as valid and worth being heard as the positive opinions.
Oh my god! Thank you so much for putting this out. :-) Oh yeah, it was a great interview too! I love you guys!
@Glad
To my knowledge, people streaming fighting game events arent really making significant amounts of money. I'd be surprised if any of the major players in streaming have even paid off their streaming rigs from ad revenue from streaming.
Please I need the name of the opening song!That beat and that sample is so dope.
Really good podcast as well by the way and I hope to hear more in the future.Maybe we could get one with Pherais thoughts about 3rd strike:Online Edition?
@pherai,
I know that for the most part you're right that there isn't profit, although that doesn't necessarily mean there's no money. Even if they came out with a net loss, if they got anything, then the larger number of viewers probably means more than they would have gotten without it. I can't speak to that specifically since I don't know how the various streaming teams handle things. So, even leaving that aside, my basic point is just that the fact that larger and larger audiences are tuning into the streams is still a good thing for everyone. If you run a fighting game themed site like this one, more people interested probably means more people coming to your website, and that means more ad rev, if you run tournaments it may mean more people at your next tournament etc. Stream numbers are part of the reason EG can afford to take Justin, Marn, and Ricky now, and allow them to travel more and get paid to do what they love. It's basically just the "rising tide lifts all ships" idea. Everyone gains when a stream gets more viewers, not just the people watching. Of course there will be assholes in the bunch, and of course there's going to be strong feedback when things go wrong, but you gotta take the bad with the good.
It's all good to say everyone should attend these tournaments, and they really should if they can- but there's no way you're ever fitting the numbers you get on the stream into any tourney venue.
To add something a little more positive though- I still really enjoyed the podcast, as I do all the ipw and the old denjin podcasts. I know you guys are just giving your opinions on the subject too, and it's good to hear it from all sides.
Just a question for Pherai, does this mean the denjin podcast is officially done (or this is the 'sccessor')?
TRACK LIST:
Intro - Kid Sublime - The Harder I Rock
Outro - Stevie Wonders - Once in My Life
I appreciate all the work done for the streams. I live all the way in Quebec and for me it's the best entertainment I can watch. But like a lot, I load the stream and hit the "pop out" link to turn off the stream monsters. I just enjoy the matches and the commentary.
Thanks Haunts! Googling the lyrics turned up nothing!
This comment thread is the best discussion on IPW by far and Haunts doesn't even bother to respond with anything other than a tracklist? (which is appreciated though)
Great podcast! Good point about the stream receiving unfair abuse. It was a great stream, with very low downtime between games and great commentary.
I used to watch world of warcraft tourney streams, and you had to pay 10$ for a blurry stream, games were delayed, with some events not showing any games at all cuz the server crashed!
The stream people did a great job and I appreciate it.
+ grats to Vangief his games were amazing!
I can understand what Haunt means what he said he wants Justin in the top 8. He doesn't take anything away from the other top 8 players.
It's just like people wanting to see an NBA finals between Lakers and Cavaliers back when Lebron was there, Kobe vs Lebron. They want to see a DREAM MATCH between 2 big names.
My friend and I also wanted to see a finals between Justin and Daigo, because of the super rivalry that's been going on since 2004. And because I think that Justin has a better chance to beat Daigo than other players.
Again, Justin vs Daigo was just a dream match, I was happy with what actually happened at the tourney. Very impressed by Gamerbee's baiting Justin's Ultras and he fully deserved his top 5 finish.
Plus Vangief's match vs Justin was just awesome, he played it perfectly to clinch the last round of the last match.
It's kinda weird that Mago still thinks the American level is lower than Japan's by a lot. The fact that Tokido didn't reach top 8 shows that the american scene is equal to the Japanese, it's just that Daigo is #1 in the world.
I want to say first that it was very refreshing to hear someone come to Justin Wong's defense. I was pretty disgusted to see the crowd at EVO cheer for his defeat. I am a huge Justin fan myself and I know he will be stronger because of this. He didn't show up at the Salty Suite so it must have affected him. Stream monsters are what they are, but G4 did do a shitty job covering EVO. The stream cut out more than once throughout the event. It is August 3rd and levelup/evovids still haven't posted any vids for the lesser games are semi final matches. IGN did a better job last year. I don't mind paying for premium content.